CX500 GL500 650 Global

Hello all,
I stopped at a friends place yesterday evening to kill time and allow traffic to die down before continuing home. I was looking at different CX forums for stater noise and ran across one with 3 links to service manuals. 2 were unavailable but, I was able to download 1 which was a GL, 81 to 83.( I have a 1978 CX500 and a 1983 500 spare engine. ) My friend was about to leave and I was rushed and can't remember which site it was. I've been looking and will post it when I find it.
Three months ago, I pulled the engine and removed the rear case to hieli-coil a stripped cam chain adjuster bolt. I reinstalled the rear case and tightened the bolts as my Clymer manual instructed. I then installed the starter. When I started the engine I had a clacking noise that persisted for a couple of seconds after the engine started. I loosened and re-tightened the starter. Swapped it to the 83 starter and nothing. Still the same.
In the Service Manual I downloaded it has a note which Clymer did not. It states, " NOTE: ENGAGE THE STARTER DRIVE GEAR WITH THE REDUCTION GEAR BEFORE TIGHTENING THE COVER. TIGHTEN THE REAR COVER BOLTS IN A CRISSCROSS PATTERN."
I was going to live with the noise until I could get to it. Which is now, because my stator just went out. I'm not complaining. The bike is 32 years old and the time and money spent on it would not come close to buying a new bike.
I picked up a good used stator on ebay.
I plan to re-epoxy the stator. It has a few cracks but, checks out fine.
I'll post the details and how it all turns out later.
Thank you for this forum Shep. It has been a great help.
I apologize if this post is a bit lengthy.
Aloha

My 1st thoughts are that the Starter Clutch mechanism may be worn or when you did the Manual adjuster and had the Starter clutch rotor off you may not have seated the 3 springs and rollers that are inside the Rotor correctly.They can be a pig to get back in but can only go in the right way really.

Also the crank shaft end that the Rotor comes off should be polished with some 500 ish grit paper to make it smooth before re-fitting the Rotor otherwise they don't always torque on fully and can cause the Rear case to be off the engine very slightly which will cause problems just like having too thick a rear engine cover gasket or none at all.Rear gasket cover cannot exceed 1mm and should be 0.8mm(around 3/64" stock Honda gasket but I make my own out of 0.8mm gasket paper.

Also in the Rear engine there are 3 important small 10mm thrust washers that should be in place.One either side of the small Starter sprocket and one under the Gear change lever.Leaving these off will cause slack and problems.

Just as a note:The Start clutch rotor does two jobs

1: The Starter mechanism none return system.

2:It contains the magnets for the Stator charging system.


Also replace the Rear engine Water pump assembly oil seal,

It's number 11 on here,

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cx500a-1980england_model16465/partslist/E12.html

and goes at the top of the Rear engine casing spring side facing you.These go brittle with age and if you don't know it's age when you manoeuvre the rear case back on the Cam shaft can damage them if not aligned well when fitting and thus cause milk in the oil/Coolant to oil leak.They are cheap and will only have to be done around every 30 years<grin>

Prior to pulling the rear engine cover to install a hieli-coil in the cam chain tensioner bolt hole there was no clacking noise. It started perfectly fine. I did not touch the stator when I had the rear cover off.
In 2000 I swapped the 78 engine with the 83 engine. I had pulled all the 83 engine cover bolts and stater to paint them. I did not remove the cover, merely removed the bolts.
I reinserted the bolts, tightened them and then installed the starter.
This evidently allowed the cover move just enough to cause a bind between the starter gear and the reduction gear which caused it to make the same clacking noise when starting. Thinking it was the starter, having not run this engine yet, I removed it and replaced it with the 78 starter. The noise went away. The 78 starter obviously had more slop to it allowing the gears to mesh more properly.
As stated before, I'll post my results when I get her up and going again.
Aloha

Also look here,

http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=208

My connection must have timed out and I lost everything I just typed with specs and so forth. So, I'll make this short. All the parts spec out at .002in to .003in of clearance (Reduction and Starter Gears) , which is like new. No bolts or screws loose (except the nut behind the wheel)
I read a case of loose bolts in the starter clutch causing noises and I'm sure there are other similar cases.
But, in mt case, having no noise before pulling the rear cover to hieli-coil the cam chain tensioner bolt and not touching anything else.
The only conclusion would be that NOT following the Honda Service Manual Note about properly reinstalling the the rear engine cover and starter could result in problems.
With that said, there are models of cars that require shims to align the starter gear with the ring gear. If not aligned properly, the gears bind and the result can be odd noises and possible teeth stripped from the ring gear. I'm sure most of us have heard the wine and clunk of a car starter with teeth missing from the ring gear. The alignment is the reason.
I think I'm sitting on the proper side of the saw as I remove this limb.
The Honda Service Manual that I downloaded is for the GL 1981 to 1983. I have a 1978 Bike and 1983 parts motor. The engine parts so far have been the same. Only the ignition has changed.
So, if anyone would like a copy, e-mail me and I'll send it to you.
Aloha

I once got a tapping sound after a re-fit similar to a cam chain rattle caused by the two small bolts that hold the top timing chain gear on.They work loose if you have not applied thread lock to them.The Haynes manual tells us to apply thread lock to them.

Hi Shep,
I can see a tapping sound coming from loose timing gear bolts. It would seem that it would be constant at an idle when the engine is lugging and probably going away when accelerating.

But, thanks for mentioning that because I think I'll take them out, since I'm in there and apply some thread locker to them just as a precautionary measure and preventative maintenance.

I checked mine and they are tight.

The noise I experience happens when the engine starts. Is loud in the beginning, occurs 5 or 6 times as it fades away.

But, there is one thing I forgot to mention (sorry) and it's important. I was so, wrapped up in the clacking sound I didn't say that, occasionally the starter would not engage. It would zing and clunk just like a car with teeth missing from the ring gear.

Forgive me. My communication skills are not as good as I would like them to be.

bg2 wrote:Hi Shep,
I can see a tapping sound coming from loose timing gear bolts. It would seem that it would be constant at an idle when the engine is lugging and probably going away when accelerating.

But, thanks for mentioning that because I think I'll take them out, since I'm in there and apply some thread locker to them just as a precautionary measure and preventative maintenance.

I checked mine and they are tight.

The noise I experience happens when the engine starts. Is loud in the beginning, occurs 5 or 6 times as it fades away.

But, there is one thing I forgot to mention (sorry) and it's important. I was so, wrapped up in the clacking sound I didn't say that, occasionally the starter would not engage. It would zing and clunk just like a car with teeth missing from the ring gear.

Forgive me. My communication skills are not as good as I would like them to be.

No problem.Se my 1st reply as that sounds like a worn part in the Starter clutch mechanism but also service the Starter anyway as it's pretty easy once you get the two long bolts out of the starter.

http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=208

I never touched the stator until this time around to check the parts and everything is top notch. Nothing loose, worn, missing or out of place.

I'll post a couple of you tube links later with the same symptoms.
Aloha

I found the you tube post of the cx650 I mentioned that has the exact starter slip and noises of my cx500. There is another one of a cx500 but, the sound quality is not as good. Here is the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3oKj-7MgUM

I put the engine back together, installing the rear cover and starter according to the procedure in the Honda Factory Service Manual. I've gone through my Clymer manual and have found no reference to installing the rear cover and starter. The noise is totally gone and starts beautifully every time. I didn't replace any parts because there was almost no wear. I didn't even need to clean them because it's well maintained and as shiny on the inside as brand new. Besides regular maintenance I run Amsoil 100% synthetic oil.
I've noticed factory manuals to have little notes and tips that make the difference between it being done right the first time and having to do it all over again. This is not the first time I've had what some would think of as a minor detail cause a major headache.
I hope this can be of help to someone.
Aloha